Blending Art and Utility with Bruce Wawrzyniak

Blending Art and Utility with Bruce Wawrzyniak
Audience
Blending Art and Utility with Bruce Wawrzyniak
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Episode October 13, 2022 00:37:30

Hosted By

Matt Medeiros Stuart Barefoot

Show Notes

Introduction:

How do you monetize without alienating your audience? What is the right mindset when going into a podcast? 

On this episode of the Audience podcast, Stuart talks with Bruce Wawrzyniak, who started his podcast (Now Hear This Entertainment) as a way to promote his business. This is a path that a lot of business owners take since it is an easy way to get valuable information out to their customers and potential customers. Today Bruce talks about his success and how his podcast has evolved from a marketing tool to something quite extraordinary. He also talks about the importance of putting your audience’s needs first (give them value and give them something to enjoy). 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to Castos.com/podcast. And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at castos.com/subscribe.

Today you’ll learn about:

  • Bruce’s past in radio and his journey as a podcaster
  • How curiosity plays a good role in interview shows
  • Gaining customers’ loyalty and how to focus on your target audience
  • Building a business and a podcast and how to balance both
  • How podcasting can help your personal and professional life
  • Bruce’s philosophy on monetizing podcasts
  • Promoting products and podcasts on your podcast
  • One of the great strengths of the podcasting medium: the formatting
  • Bruce’s big podcasting tip

 

Resources/Links:

Bruce Wawzyniak, LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brucewawrzyniak/ 

Now Hear This Management: https://nhte.net/  

Now Hear This Entertainment: https://now-hear-this.net/content/podcast 

Bruce Wawzyniak, Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nowhearthisentertainment/

Castos Academy: https://academy.castos.com/ 

Castos, private podcast: https://academy.castos.com/privatepodcast/ 

Castos, website: https://castos.com/ 

Castos, YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/castos  

Clubhouse video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8729ZpWpmIw 

View Full Transcript

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 00:00:02 I think just about every independent creator understands either intuitively or through experience, that there's a struggle between what we'll call the artsy side of things and the more business side of things. Now, what exactly that balance is will probably vary from one project to the next, But I feel comfortable saying that podcasts that just feel like a 30 minute ad for your thing, whatever your thing might be, are less effective than something that's genuinely interesting. Speaker 2 00:00:30 I'm thinking of those people out there who are just listening because they're music lovers or they're listening because they like to discover new artists. They like to discover new music, and so if they never give me a sc, that's fine. I'm interested in their loyalty. Speaker 1 00:00:46 Next, you'll hear from someone who started a podcast with the goal of promoting his business mission accomplished, by the way. But over the years, it's become something much more than that. It's a show that has listeners all over the world has been nominated for multiple awards and generates income both directly and indirectly. My name is Stewart, and this is Audience, A Casto original series for podcasters in pursuit of producing better shows and uncovering the business at Powers audio creators. Speaker 1 00:01:20 Okay, if you haven't figured it out yet, being an independent creator is hard. And at Casto we get it. We work with independent creators and small businesses all the time. I'm even an independent creator myself, who also uses Casto. While our shows may be different, the one thing we have in common is we need all the support we can get. So that's why Casto has a suite of tools that makes life a little bit easier for podcasters through the Casto app. For instance, you can make a private exclusive show, and our integration with Stripe makes it easier to accept payments directly from your listeners. Learn more@casto.com or by clicking on the link in the show notes. Speaker 2 00:02:03 Well, I started podcasting in February, 2014, and that was at a time when I had started to hear enough about this thing called podcasting that it had my attention, it had my interest. Speaker 1 00:02:16 Bruce Wosniak is not a hipster, but it was podcasting before it was cool. <laugh>, his podcast now hear this entertainment, which he created to promote his talent management and publicity company is a weekly show featuring people in the entertainment business who are successful. Most of his guests are musicians and include the likes of Roy Orbis and Junior. Just today, one, the show has also been a success. It's gained listeners from 161 countries around the world and is one of the top 2% most popular shows out of the more than 2.8 million podcasts globally. In 2021, well magazine rated it one of the best 20 entertainment podcasts with his growing audience. Bruce does find ways to directly monetize a show, a few ad reads here and there, and options for listener support. But the big success of his show has been opportunities like speaking engagements, podcasting courses that he's created, and he's even been hired to host and produce other shows. Of course, this is still a branded podcast technically, but it never feels that way. Now here, this entertainment sounds more like something you tune into on a Saturday morning on your local radio station, and that's by design. Before going to PR out, Bruce began his career in broadcasting, doing everything from sports radio to TV, broadcasting and everything in between. And it's that experience that informs how he makes this podcast now. Speaker 2 00:03:44 Well, I think my time in radio really helped me to view things more journalistically. I think it's kind of more my upbringing and just my own personal interests that grew my interest in music. But I think, and I've seen this with the podcasts that I do, I think my background in radio and to some extent that education that I got going for a media communications degree really for whatever reason, put me more in a position of looking at things journalistically. And even when I'm interviewing guests on my podcast, I think there's also an innate curiosity factor that really helps, and I always hope that the audience kind of hears that, that these are questions that Bruce is asking. Yes, as a show host, but I think Bruce is also just asking out of curiosity and to learn. Sometimes Speaker 3 00:04:37 It never feels like it's a, we'll call it a branded podcast or anything like that. I mean, it really does feel like something that you would tune into on Saturday mornings on NPR or one of those public radio stations or maybe something, I don't know, song exploder or to some extent some of what Talkhouse is doing. Just two professionals really chatting. But I mean, you said it yourself, it's a journalistic approach. It's something that anyone can tune into and listen to. I mean, even if someone has no intention of employing your services, they can still tune in and listen to your show, get an appreciation for the artist that you're interviewing. Does that mean something to you that even if someone never gives you a cent that they can tune in to now hear this and still get some value from it? Speaker 2 00:05:20 Yeah, and really the fellow that I'm referring to who's recording studio I used to go to, he's still to this day and and obviously at the time that I was going to his studio, he would say all the time, you're really doing a radio show, Bruce. I sit here and I listen to every week and you're doing a radio show. And so I think that's something that I've kind of kept in mind is that general audience who's gonna say, I'm thinking of those people out there who are just listening because they're music lovers or they're listening because they like to discover new artists, they like to discover new music. And so if they never give me a scent, that's fine. I'm interested in their loyalty and continuing to give them something that they wanna cont. Cuz you have to remember now here, this entertainment has been around since February, 2014, and I'm so proud of that because of podcasts that come and go in my gosh, that's more than eight and a half years. Speaker 2 00:06:13 There's some podcasts that go eight and a half weeks and they're already done. So if there are audience members who continue to stay with me and stay with me and stay with me month after month, year after year, if they don't ever spend a dime with me, I'm thrilled that they are getting enough entertainment value out of my show that they say, You know what? I'm gonna listen to now hear this entertainment just because Bruce gives a good show and that's enough for me. And like you said, it could be, this is what I do on Saturday mornings when I'm drinking my coffee after I've given myself the gift of sleeping in an extra hour. You know, maybe they really spoil themselves on Saturday morning and I, I consider all the different audience members that might be out there, the person that's driving to work. Speaker 2 00:06:56 And you know, that struggle that you have as a podcaster to say, Well, gosh, Bruce, now here, this entertainment, the episodes are 45, 50, 55, sometimes 60 minutes long. Who out there really has that long of a commute? And even though yes, you can argue people in New York, people in Los Angeles, I don't want to change the show just because of that portion of the audience. So if you think of those people who are quote unquote, just the ones who are listening during driving, well they could split that up into two different listening times. And so if that's only half of the people, because if you do consider the people that are in big markets that have long commutes, well you now, you're not talking about the people who are listening at home now. You're not talking about the people who are listening at the gym now. Speaker 2 00:07:43 You're not talking about the people who are listening at the beach, et cetera, et cetera. So I wanna continue to just deliver that same quality, consistent product that they're used to hearing. And not all of a sudden below the thing up just for a small portion of the audience that I think this'll be more convenient for the people that have a 30 minute commute because I want them to enjoy it and not have any of us get bogged down and taking it too seriously. Meaning, am I getting newsletter subscribers from this? Am I getting them to pay me something and them saying, Is this more than me just getting a nice listening experience out of Bruce's show? Speaker 3 00:08:17 I think people can tell too, when they listen to something, Oh man, this is just gonna be a 30 minute sales pitch for this guy's, you know, in whatever, whatever it is they're, they're trying to sell you. When did that click for you that, Look, I can, I can promote my business while at the same time also having something that's very informative and very entertaining for people. Speaker 2 00:08:40 That actually was something I would say borderline from day one that I knew I was gonna want to have as part of the show because it accomplishes a couple things. It gives me the opportunity to ask the questions that I wanna know the answers to. But when I listen to a guest talk and I'm able to kind of compliment what they said with maybe a personal experience of my own or by saying, a client of mine just went through that last month, or I went to Nashville six months ago and one of my clients X, Y, Z and I think the audience member is kind of realizing on their own, Oh that's right, this Bruce Guy, even though he doesn't promote himself like crazy every episode in his business, this is part of what he does. And so I don't wanna say it adds a credibility factor, but I think it kind of reminds the, the audience member, that's how Bruce is able to ask these qualified questions, these quality questions. Speaker 2 00:09:38 And I think also what happens is I decided early on it's going to go a long way with the guest when they hear, Oh, he knows the business, he knows what he's talking about. They can kind of speak a little bit differently than they would if this was, I don't want say just a radio interview as though I'm saying that in a derogatory fashion, but certainly radio shows have so, so, so, so, so many guests. Radio shows can be five days a week, they can have more than one guest a day. So yes, as proud as I am of 450 episodes in eight and a half years, you think of how many interviews they're doing. And those are really short five to seven minute interviews. So it is gonna be very, on the surface, they're not gonna dig deep like that. So I'm able to go into those types of conversations where the guest is kind of, they're having that light bulb turn on and they're saying, Okay, this is someone that knows the business. So I can kind of change the way I'm gonna answer these questions and go a little bit deeper than just giving the surface answer that I would normally give on the radio. Speaker 3 00:10:40 There's a saying I heard once, and I'll preface it by saying I don't totally agree with it, but I want to get your your take on it. I know somebody who says this all the time. He says, Art for the sake of commerce. When you hear that, what do you, what's your initial reaction? Speaker 2 00:10:59 My initial reaction is someone that's trying to make money, someone that's trying to monetize something. Speaker 3 00:11:04 Yeah, that's pretty much the case. It's, it's somebody who believes that art is only useful if it leads to revenue and that case probably for his, for his business. I've always come at it from almost the exact opposite end of the spectrum where I say commerce for the sake of art, Money's very useful if it helps me create, uh, a vanity project or something. In reality, if we're being pragmatist about it, there's probably a good sweet spot right in the middle, right? I mean, look, we we're both, we're both in the business of, of making media. We have to support ourselves somehow, but you have to have something that people wanna listen to. You've got a great show and now hear this and you're also able to generate some revenue from it. And now do you are, do you ever get people who sign up for your services because they, they listen to your, to your podcast? Speaker 2 00:11:57 I'm glad to asked that and when you first started into your take on it all I was gonna say, I would kind of go somewhere right down the middle with it because when a lot of people come to me for say, podcast coaching services, one of the first things they want to know. And even when I just go out and speak at podcasting events, I always make it a point to say, if you're getting into a podcasting just for the sake of finding out how do I make money off of this thing? You're doing it for all, all the wrong reasons. But then I also, there's a presentation that I do, which is called 12 Ways to Monetize Your Podcast. And I think the title alone kind of gets people's attention as to say, Oh, so you don't just get sponsors. And so whereas no, you don't just get into podcasting just to make money. Speaker 2 00:12:41 Obviously, yes, you did a great job of saying certainly we do have a business to run, et cetera. But I think it's really a case of you need to look at it and say, What are the doors that podcasting has opened for me? That's a lot different than saying, how much money has podcasting put directly into your pocket? And so when I take a step back and I look at all the people that I've been able to talk to, I now hear this entertainment, I'm just talking about the podcast. I don't mean in my business dealings in general. And those people who a lot of them would've never otherwise answered my phone call or answered my email. Now all of a sudden it's only because of my podcast that they are getting back to me that I am having these substantive discussions with them and that I'm forming the basis of a relationship that can then further my business later on. Speaker 2 00:13:35 So none of that has to do with getting a sponsor for the podcast or somebody paying me immediately for my services because of the podcast. But if I look at some of the clients that I have and a pain point of theirs and I realize there's someone that I had on the podcast that I can connect them with and now that issue is solved for them, they're happy, Oh by the way they happen to be someone who's already paying me, then that's wonderful. And yes, certainly things like speaking engagements or I even talk about the fact that there was a point in time where I was doing the official company podcast for Task cam. Well, task Cam would've never hired me to do their podcast for them in the first place. If now here this entertainment wasn't having the success that it was. So they saw, here's a guy that has a podcast that's doing well, we'd much rather have him do it than us, kind of get ourselves up to speed on what is podcasting, because this was back in 2017 that all that started. Speaker 2 00:14:37 And so by extension that is a very valid case for are you monetizing, you're now here, this entertainment podcast, Bruce? Well if task cam hired me to do a podcast for them, I would say that that's monetizing. Now here's this entertainment, wouldn't you? And then people you see them kind of raise their eyebrows. Oh, okay, that makes sense. So none of what I'm doing is I'm only in this to see how I can make money, how fast I can make money, how much money I can make. I really do have the blinders off completely. And I think the beauty of podcasting is that as fast as we've seen it grow and as long as it has been around, I mean I say that I started in 2014 and all of a sudden here we are eight and a half years later, but I'm quick to point out, hey, I've met people that have said I've been doing it since 2005, but yet it's still early enough on that you can discover new opportunities even today. Speaker 2 00:15:37 And that's for someone that is eight and a half years into it. And that's why I say I don't go into this with blinders on because I want to be able to see anything and everything that's out there and not just be focused on, like you said, art for the sake of commerce. And the other thing is too that you know, I am such a believer of being in service to people that I think I came upon an opportunity to monetize accidentally as opposed to other people that sit around and think, Okay, I have this podcast, it's probably that I need to think of a course that I could launch because they need something to sell on their podcast. And I think sitting in my seat for all the years that I have, not to mention all the years being a publicist, I think I saw such frustration firsthand of guests that come unprepared. Speaker 2 00:16:29 Sure. Sometimes myself being a guest on other podcasts. But I thought, I need to help people out here because I'll bet you there are people who are sitting back and they're, especially when we went through Covid and people would say, I can just sit around in my pajamas all day and stay in bed and do interviews on the phone. And so I launched an interview tips course, I mean it's literally called Interview Tips course, just because I thought somebody needs to help these people because I'll bet you they're doing all these interviews and they're not selling anymore books, they're not selling anymore music, they're not getting any new clients, they're not getting more downloads. And it's because people just go into it thinking it's just a podcast and shame on them that it's thought of kind of as the redheaded stepchild and they think, who knows me better than me? Speaker 2 00:17:16 And they just kind of mail it in. And so like I said, I just thought I need to help these people out so that they start seeing more results because that's what I would want for my own clients. And I almost kind of backed myself into, oh by the way, I guess you just sort of found a way to monetize, which indirectly you could say it wasn't even something that was directly tied to the podcast. Because I could have launched interview tips course.com and never had a podcast. It could have been this is who I am as a publicist. I spent all these years working in the National Hockey League, I spent all these years working in the Olympic movement. I have been a broadcaster, but I do just see it obviously from a podcaster standpoint even more and thought somebody needs to help people out because there is such a emphasis on access to getting on podcasts. And yet when people get on there, I want them to be a good guest. And so I thought, well, I can help my own case, but I could also help other people. And like I said, it wasn't even g I must need a new way to monetize my podcast because that is something that I don't put priority number one on. Speaker 3 00:18:20 I wanna talk a little bit about your creative process for, for making a show like this. I saw Rahz and the folks at How I built this breakdown, how they make episodes and it takes months when you do background research, you know, pitching guests, getting custom soundtracks, all all that stuff. I, I imagine it doesn't take you months to make an episode, but I'm also willing to bet it doesn't take you just hours either. So how many people are involved with this front to end? How long does it take you to produce an episode? Speaker 2 00:18:53 Well, it's something that I think has gotten more streamlined certainly as the years went along because I could make an argument that it worked against me going to a recording studio when I first started the show because it was, Hey, I just want to get up and running and get out the door. So whereas it might have been hand everything off to the guy of the studio and it's his problem now later on it caught up to me when I did coincidentally start that podcast for Task Cam and I realize that hey, now I'm taking on even more. So now I do have to allow, as you're saying, time for the Postproduction. I have to allow for time that I'm not only gonna be the host, but I'm gonna be the one recording this thing. And so certainly you're gonna have technical aspects that you never thought of before. Speaker 2 00:19:39 And yeah, when you're doing a show where you're interviewing someone and not just talking by yourself, well now there's another layer that goes into it because I don't think the audience really understands how much back and forth there is when you ask a guest for talking points for a show that's gonna be 45, 50, 55 minutes long and they write back and say Anything is fair game with me, or they write back and give you two things. And so it's gonna either be that much more research you're gonna do or it's gonna be that much more back and forth. And so you're, you're right, this is not something that takes me months and months of research, but it's not something that I sit down one day, find someone that I want to interview, email them and within a manner of a day or two we're on recording with each other and then it's onto the postproduction because there is so much that goes on behind the scenes and of course there are certain criteria that even have to be met in the first place. Speaker 2 00:20:35 So I think you do have to factor in all that time of even evaluating a guest in the first place. And so yes, I do get help from someone that will kind of facilitate, you know, help with that booking. For me, especially the on location stuff, the on location stuff, it just becomes a completely different animal. So it's really beneficial to me to have someone by my side who will do the booking, who will work on the scheduling and that I can really kind of be a little bit more laser focused and know that there's gonna be a lot of different moving parts that I'm not used to when I'm sitting at my recording rig. Uh, because again, it is still gonna be hours and hours and hours and hours of work, but you want it to be something where when you sit down all that goes away. And I'm talking about whether you are on location or whether you're sitting in front of the recording rig that you're used to being at. It has to be all that goes away. And all I know is it's just me and the guest talking and I've got what I wanna accomplish in front of me and let's make it relax, let's make it enjoyable and let's create something that people are gonna wanna listen to. Speaker 3 00:21:41 How would you say your podcast has changed over time? Speaker 2 00:21:45 I often say I wouldn't wanna go back and listen to episode one <laugh> cause I can't imagine what I sounded like or what I was talking about back then. I do know that, as I said, when I first started it, I was putting too much of an emphasis on, okay, I'm doing this because I want new clients to find me through the podcast. And there was also a real big awakening for me at one point along the way when I went to a podcasting conference and a speaker said from the stage, you can't be asking your audience to do seven different things because they're gonna do zero. So just ask for one. So I know that was a real big change for me because I did used to ask people, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, follow on all these and write to me and let me know what you think about the show. Speaker 2 00:22:31 And I had this whole list of things I needed to accomplish. And when you take a step back and you think about that advice, it's probably right because unless you hear a host say one something that just really, really, really hits the nail on the head for you, you're probably not gonna do anything. And so I think it's changed over the years that I've said to myself, It will happen organically. If someone feels that you're bringing value in a business sense that they wanna do business with you, they'll get in touch with you whether it's to book you as a speaker or whether it's to become a client or whatever the case is. But it really has to be more about something that the guest is gonna enjoy and that the audience is going to enjoy and don't get caught up in it being something transactional. Speaker 2 00:23:14 And so I think that's really been a big change. There's a point in time where I stopped giving out a tip in the middle of every episode just because it got to where I thought, okay, I've given out like 200 of these and I just don't feel that this is having the impact that I wanted it to. And so the nice thing about podcasting is I can say I'm gonna take that out because it's ultimately up to me, but also it's not going to be this major impact on the show where people are just, just gonna be so caught off guard of some dramatic change that Bruce made. And so I think it's really just kind of been some of those subtle things along the way and really trying to keep the core there of, look, I want to interview guests who are having success in entertainment that are not necessarily a-listers. And I really think I've been loyal to that for eight and a half plus years. Speaker 3 00:24:09 You know, that's a lesson I had to learn along the way as well. I mean, you've listened to Obscure Ball before and now if you listen to like the last couple episodes, and for those who don't know, Obscure Ball is like my own personal podcast. If you listen to recent episodes, there's, there's no sales pitch or anything. I think usually there's just like a little plug asking people to check out the website and share it with their friends. That's all I'm asking for. When people listen to that, I've had a lot more success doing that because my trajectory has been somewhat similar to yours in that Obscure Ball has. Aside from it just being something I love doing, something that I'm really passionate about has been like a business card to me. You know, it's like, hey, I'm, I am a producer, I'm an editor. Speaker 3 00:24:51 And so if people point to something, if people ask me to point to something I've done, I'm like, Hey look, here's my portfolio. And I think actually something that I'm a big believer in and I've always, when people talk to me all the time about like, or anytime someone asks me about doing like freelance work or anything like that, I always say, you know, one of the best ways to make your portfolio is just to go out and do the type of work you wanna do. And so if you're a graphic designer, take a couple hours a week just to design, you know, a logo that you would want to do for someone else and have that as part of your portfolio. And a podcast can be exactly the same way. I'm very interested in narrative nonfiction. So I went out and made a narrative nonfiction podcast and it's opened all kinds of doors for me. Speaker 3 00:25:36 In the early days, my whole idea was, well I'm gonna pitch this, I'm gonna have this commercial at the, you know, beginning of the podcast and people can get in touch with me and they're gonna want me to make, No, that didn't work at all. It was when I, on an individual basis, when I could share something with somebody and be like, Look, go check that out. That's, that's my style, that's how I do things. If you wanna know what I'm capable of, listen to listen to Obscure Ball and you'll, you'll get a sense of who I am and and what my creative approach is. And that's done a lot more than, you know, a direct call to action so to speak. Speaker 2 00:26:09 Yeah. And I have found there are so many people in the podcasting industry that will tell you that for an ad to be successful, it has to be something that you believe in, something that you're personally using. And so I've always liked that when I ask people to sign up for the newsletter, I'm not asking them to spend money, I just tell them that they're gonna get something in there that probably is not gonna be on the podcast itself and it's only once a week. It's not intrusive at all. And so to me that's kind of a, I don't even wanna say a soft sell because I'm not selling anything and I take pride in sending out that newsletter and it really being more informative than I'm trying to sell you something this week and this week I'm trying to sell you something else and the week after I'm trying to sell you something else. Speaker 2 00:26:55 And so what I have found is when I do ask, I don't even wanna say ask when I tell people about something else and now hear this entertainment, it is exactly what I said that advice was. If I'm talking about now, granted one thing I've noticed about myself over the years in doing the show, and I think this is born out of having started at a recording studio because I thought, wow, the bar has been set really high for the quality of my audio. If I'm all of a sudden gonna leave a recording studio and do this on my own, the recording quality, the audio quality cannot fall off. And so when I tell people about products, uh, now here, this entertainment that have to do with recording a podcast, it's because I'm using them and because I do feel so strongly about the importance of good audio quality. Speaker 2 00:27:41 So again, that's where I feel I'm trying to help people because I don't want them to get into podcasting or to be recording their own music. And it sounds substandard if there's a pair of headphones that I'm wearing that are just so comfortable because you know what, it's like yourself as someone who does that to sit in a long editing session and have headphones that hurt by the time you take 'em off. I wanna let people know, especially in this day and age of gamers and things like that, there was something that I used to advertise, it was a a Las Vegas based newsletter and that's just cuz I like going to Las Vegas and I know there's a lot of people out there that do. So you know, I'm not asking for seven different things during an episode of now here the entertainment. And if I'm telling them about one thing it is because it's something that, hey, this is something that I'm using, I wouldn't tell you about it if I didn't believe in it. Speaker 2 00:28:32 I wouldn't tell you about it if it was something that I was only getting paid for, but that's the only reason I'm doing it. And so I think it does go along the way with the audience that they say, Wow, this is something that Bruce is using himself, so I'll check it out. It's up to them to decide if they wanna make a purchase or not. It's like you can always tell the advertiser, I can only get people to your page once they get there. Now it's on you as to if you have a good landing page, a good sales page, et cetera, as to whether you're converting or not. Speaker 3 00:29:00 Yeah. And the interest, a full disclosure, I have advertised obscure ball on on your podcast before and it's, it's a, you know, again, it's another great way of, uh, just what I mean, you said, you know, being in service to others, I mean it's, I I know I can go to now hear this and I know that you're gonna have an audience who's interested in long form storytelling and it's been a great relationship. Speaker 2 00:29:24 Yeah, and I would say that's a perfect example because if someone came to me and said, I would like to advertise my podcast, I'm now here this entertainment, that's what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna listen to it first. And if I think, Oh boy, this is, this is not good audio, you know, or it's just not interesting or it's something that I'm really offended by or turned off by, I'm gonna turn that person down. Whereas I think too many people, again, that discussion about, they get so caught up in how can I monetize my podcast? I fear that there might be someone out there who might just take their money and never even listen to that other person's podcast. And again, yes, full disclosure, I've listened to Stewart's podcast and I have recently sent him an email telling him how great the audio quality sounds, how much research I can tell he put into it, how much prep time I can tell that goes into his episodes. And so that goes a long way with me because that's kind of something where you're putting your reputation on the line with your audience. Because if they say, Bruce, I checked out that product that you told me about and it fell apart two weeks after I bought it, well now they kind of are shooting you even though you're quote unquote just the messenger. So it does really have to be something that they're gonna say, Yeah, Bruce is talking about it, it's probably something pretty decent. I'll, I'll give Speaker 3 00:30:37 It a look. And I think that's also a good argument, maybe not so much against, but it's something to keep in mind if you're someone who's interested in a lot of digital ad, uh, insertion or I'm sorry, dynamic ad insertion because you don't always have control over what gets advertised. You know, what if, if there's something you're very opposed to morally or ethically, uh, or just isn't, doesn't make sense to, to be advertising with your audience. Can you imagine like having something like a nutrition podcast and then you sign up for Dai and then now you've got like a Coca-Cola or McDonald's in the middle of your, in the middle of your podcast. I mean that's, uh, that could be, that'd be a conflict of interest as in my view. Speaker 2 00:31:20 Absolutely. Absolutely. Speaker 3 00:31:22 We're at the point of the conversation now where I feel like we've covered a lot of ground, but I did wanna kind of give the floor back to you. Is there anything that you think I should have asked that I haven't yet? Speaker 2 00:31:33 Well, I just, again, I wanna reiterate that I really put an emphasis when I do the now here this entertainment podcast. I'm trying to think of the questions that the audience has. And that could be the up and coming indie performer. I know what his or her questions are because those are people I work with as clients. So I want the audience to understand this is kind of the attack mode. When I go into preparing for an interview, I'm thinking, if I have that question, I'm sure that people in the audience have that question. And so I'm hopeful that the audience appreciates that. The guy at the recording studio that I used to go to, he always used to tell me, the biggest compliment that your show gets is week after week. I sit here and I say, Boy, these guests, they're always saying to Bruce at some point during his interview. Hmm, wow, that's a really good question. And I took a step back and I thought, well, I guess I didn't realize that. Speaker 2 00:32:28 I think it means that the guest appreciates the level of preparation, the level of research that's going into these interviews. But again, a lot of that is because I'm putting the hat on of someone that wants to make sure the questions are getting asked, that the audience is gonna be interested in, or the audience is themselves going to have. I may have some ideas of the things I plan to ask, but it's those follow up questions that are probably the ones that the audience is saying, Wait, go back because did he or she just say this? I would love to know X, Y, Z, and low and behold, there's Bruce with the same thought in his head and I ask those questions. So that's kind of a, a big part of what my mindset is as I'm recording these interviews week after week. Speaker 3 00:33:10 I think that's the strength of this medium because you're not, you're not really hindered by a format. Cause I came from radio too, and I used to have to make like evergreen content or I'd make these weekly segments, I would get burdened or bogged down with the format. It's like there's only so much you can do, you've gotta make it happen in 45 seconds because they're moving on to the next thing. And radio interviews are the same way. They, they have five minutes. I mean, how many times have you listen to NPR and somebody's in the middle of saying something interesting and the guest is like, Yeah, yeah, I know, but we've we've gotta move on. I'm sorry. And then as a list. Yeah, and then they're, they're the gold standard. I mean they're the best in the world at it. So it's like, man, if they're, if, if they can't figure out, if they can't figure it out, you know who, who else in radio can, But in, in podcasting there's no time constraints other than ones people artificially impose on themselves. Speaker 2 00:34:00 Yeah, it's interesting because when I see podcasts that go 90 minutes, two hours, three hours long, I think to myself as a host, <laugh>, oh my gosh, how could someone possibly go that long with something? But it's exactly what you just said. When the guest is that good and there is so much information to draw from, it's possible. It's only been twice in the eight and a half years I've now heard this entertainment that I have had a conversation that was so, so long that I split it up into two parts. And it's because of what you're saying. You have this idea of what you wanna get out of it and then you say to yourself, I don't have to be tied to the clock. I don't have to look and say, Boy, this person seems like they can contribute a lot more. But unfortunately, look at what the timer is telling me. You just say, You know what? I'm gonna make the conscious decision that I'm gonna split this up into two episodes cuz you have too much that we're all gonna miss out on if I'm loyal to the clock instead of to the audience. Speaker 3 00:34:58 Bruce, I'm gonna get you stick to stick around after the credits. You mentioned tips earlier, sounds like you got a lot of them. We're just gonna ask here for one, you don't have to give us all 12 or however many you have. Just one tip from Bruce, where's the act? So stick around after the credits. Bruce, where can people find you if they want to learn more? Speaker 2 00:35:15 I am old fashioned, so I love to send people to the website. So the podcast name is now here, this entertainment and as a result, the website address is N hte. So it's like the acronym for now here, this entertainment n hte.net. And once they land there, they'll not only find the podcast, but certainly there's an email address to write to me and there's social media icons so they can can connect with me through Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, et cetera. Speaker 4 00:35:43 Hey there, listener, it's Matt. Before you go, I want to offer you the Aspiring Podcaster. Two special items. Number one, if you haven't started a podcast yet or you want to find a better podcast hosting company, start here at Casto, use our coupon code Audience 20, that's Audience two Zero. When you sign up for a new account@casto.com, start a podcast like the one you just heard or about Gluten-free muffins, whatever it is, will help you get your podcast out into the world. Number two, did you know that our academy is free enrolled today for free@academy.casto.com, get access to our courses, videos, and templates, all for free. Thanks for listening to the audience podcast today. We hope we're helping you become a better podcaster. All that's left for you to do is share this episode on social media Buy for now Speaker 1 00:36:37 And now onto our podcasting tip where we ask successful creators to share a podcasting tip with our audience. Speaker 2 00:36:45 I'm Bruce Warne from the Now Hear This Entertainment podcast and my podcasting tip is that there are more than two dozen ways to promote your podcast. It is not just social media and there's a lot of emphasis put these days on how to successfully promote your podcast through social media, yet there's at least two dozen other ways. So my podcasting tip is don't only promote your podcast through social media. Yes, you absolutely should do it. I'd be disappointed if you weren't promoting through social media, but please avail yourself to the more than two dozen other method methods that there are out there. And I should mention that the overwhelming majority of them don't even cost you anything.

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