3 Clips Re-Air: Bellwether

3 Clips Re-Air:  Bellwether
3 Clips Re-Air: Bellwether

Jul 07 2022 | 00:34:23

Episode July 07, 2022 00:34:23

Hosted By

Stuart Barefoot

Show Notes

For this episode, we’ll go back into our Archives to listen to an episode of 3Clips. It features Sam Greenspan and their podcast of speculative journalism, Bellwether. 

Not only is Sam one of the best minds in radio and podcasting (and the masterpiece that is Bellwether reflects that) but they also were able to use crowdfunding to bring a project five years in the making to life. 

This episode first aired in February of 2022 and was hosted by Evo Terra and was produced and edited by Stuart Barefoot.









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Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:01 Hey Stewart here. We all know that independent creators have to wear multiple hats, so to speak. I think that's especially true for personal projects. So when seam Greenspan made bellwether, not only did they write and report on five different stories, they also had to figure out a way to fund the project. So to learn about that, we'll listen in on an old episode of three clips, it's from season two and first aired in February of 2022, it was hosted by Evo Tara and was produced and edited by me and the episode Evo chats with Sam about their creative process and how they utilize crowdfunding to bring that creative vision to life. Speaking of crowdfunding with Casto, we can make crowdfunding more accessible through our partnership with Stripe using Stripe. You can collect payments directly from your listeners, so no more clunky add algorithms or anything like that. It's just a simple payment directly from your listeners to you learn more@casto.com or click on the link in the show notes. Speaker 3 00:01:07 Before I knew anything else about bellwether, I knew there was going to be in OmniGen voice that I, as a reporter would not interact with and would sort of exist in a plane outside of me. I knew it was a female character, and I knew that she would be in conversation with someone off stage. My name is Sam Greenspan. I am the creator of bellwether, a podcast with speculative journalism, and I am now also a senior producer at vice audio. Speaker 4 00:01:38 Hey, it's Evo. And this is three clips, a Casto original as always. Our goal with three clips is to demystify the creative process behind great podcasts and to inspire greater creativity in your work to help with that today, I'm chatting with Sam Greenspan about their podcast of speculative journalism called bellwether. And yes, I mean, VA Sam Greenspan, award-winning radio producer, and podcaster, who was a founding producer of Radiotopia 99% invisible the Ted radio hour from NPR, the city from USA today, and Radiotopia space bridge, their latest project, bellwether present stories of the world as it is through the lens of what it might become in depth long form. Non-fiction told within the frame of an ongoing sci-fi radio serial, the series is framed around four real life stories that Sam reported on layered with a fictitious story arc in this fictitious futuristic world. The internet is broken. It's gone. IOUs is a human doing gig work for the cloud burst truth and reconciliation commission. To understand why the internet broke with the help of their sentient AI companion cast. They discover bellwether. Each episode focuses on a clash between humans and technology, an AI powered car accident, internet trolls, spreading misinformation, internet sex trafficking, and a possible solution to link rot. Speaker 4 00:03:15 Three clips is a Casto original series. Casto helps podcasters like you host amazing shows and monetize premium content all within our easy to use podcast dashboard. If you're looking for a team to get your next podcast project off the ground, look no further then Casto productions. Hey, we help make this show too. Email us. Hello, casto.com with any questions or visit three clips, podcast.com/casto for more information. And now here's my conversation with Sam Greenspan of the podcast bellwether. Speaker 4 00:03:57 So before we get into the clips, Sam, uh, I think it's important that we set this stage. That's a turn of phrase. I use way too often, but nonetheless, um, I wanna set the stage with the, with the show bellwether, but, but also with you and, and how the whole show came to be, but let's start with you, Sam Greenspan person who counts amongst their min accolades, helping bring to life 99% invisible, the Ted radio hour and lots of other podcasts. I know you've taught radio at institutions like Stanford university. You've given talks about making excellent audio, literally around the world. So you are in many podcasters minds living the dream, cause let's put another overuse phrase out there, but I'm curious, how do you feel about where you are in your career right Speaker 3 00:04:46 Now? Well, I, I, you know, I have to acknowledge that I have had a lot of luck and a lot of privileges along the process so far. Right. You know, I was pretty lucky to be able to get in. I got into radio pretty early. I was fortunate to go to college at a school called new college of Florida, which just so happened to have a brand new community radio station that I think, I think opened like the year that I started there. So I just got to like help be part of the beginning of that was sort of my first, my first instruction to radio Ws, SLR, still on the air, on, in Sarasota, Florida. And then I, I went to the salt Institute when I in 2006, which was sort of like my study abroad semester of school. And then I moved to wound up in DC after, after, after college. Speaker 3 00:05:27 And just sort of like, why don't you just go get a job? And I'm like, wow, it seems kind of hard, but it felt like forever at the time. But eventually I was able to get a, get a part-time job at NPR and did some freelancing for, uh, for w Y P and Baltimore and w AU and DC. I had a lot of advantages. And then also like be the, the pandemic as horrible as it was for so many people. It afforded me the opportunity of, um, well, what I call, I, I say that bellwether was paid for by the COVID arts grant, otherwise known as unemployment and the eviction moratorium. And that's literally how I paid for the production of the show. And when that ended, I was like trying to put it out. So yeah, I guess I'm, I'm super lucky in that, in that I was able to just sort of get it out the door right. Speaker 3 00:06:11 As, uh, as, as my, uh, government paycheck was ending. And then, um, and then kind of just got hired immediately by vice and, and have really, I mean, I'm just, I've just started there a couple months ago, but it's, it's such an amazing team and people who I already knew from the radio world beforehand, which is kind of what led me to apply there in the first place. But yeah, I guess, you know, all that said, I wanna, you know, I'm feeling like I wanna be making my next thing. Right. It's like, I, as soon as something is like out of my brain, I'm just like, I haven't done what I feel like, like I haven't done anything. I feel like I haven't done anything like in, I don't know, months or whatever, but I wanna, I wanna make the next thing. I have like a lot of ideas for some projects, you know, some stuff at vice. And I'm also looking forward to trying to get the work on, you know, some other, maybe non radio projects, like get back into being a musician and stuff. Speaker 4 00:06:59 Well, you mentioned bellwether mm-hmm <affirmative> so let's, I'm gonna save my specific production questions for when we get to playing the Clipse, but can you sum up bellwether in a single sentence? Speaker 3 00:07:10 Bellwether is a podcast. That's like, Speaker 4 00:07:12 Oh, you're gonna try, this is gonna be great. One Speaker 3 00:07:14 Sentence. Oh, I've had, I've had a long time to perfect this so I can give it to you in one sentence. I can give it to you in three sentences. Like, just tell me, just tell me how long you want it. Cuz I've gotten these pitches down, but bellweather is a podcast in which I, Sam Greenspan report, true nonfiction stories from our present that are presented within the frame of a sci-fi radio serial taking place in the future. Speaker 4 00:07:37 So last set of question about how bellwether came to be. I remember listening to an early episode, what seems like a decade ago, but it was probably just before the pandemic, right? Because time is wonky. So please forgive me if my faulty memory is incorrect here, but if memory serves, you started this as a Kickstarter campaign or a Kickstarter campaign was used to somehow fund this, is that a true statement? Speaker 3 00:08:02 That is a partially true statement. It actually started quite a while before the Kickstarter campaign, it began in earnest in 2017. I had just really begun to feel. I, I mean, I had, I had my dream job producing 99% visible and had done that for a number of years, but I just 2016 was just such an awful year for so many reasons. And I just couldn't tell stories about buildings anymore. Um, and <laugh>, I, I just, I just, there was just other things that I just felt, I felt kind of occupied my imagination and anxieties. And so I just had this inkling of an idea of like, how do I tell, how can I te I was finding myself retreating a lot into sci-fi to deal with a lot of the trauma of the daily news. And I was like, how can I create this feeling of safety that I feel inside of sci-fi to sort of not escape from the news, but to contextualize it and sort of contain that like horror. Speaker 3 00:09:00 And, and then it like, of course, realizing duh, like that's kind of what sci-fi has always been. It's always been about the present. And so from there, I, I began, I, I left 99% visible in 20, in April, 2017 to really pursue bellwether in earnest. And it went through a lot of iterations and in believe was the Kickstarter 2018 at this, I think it was summer 2018. Um, so it really, I, I, you know, the field, like the podcasting industry had changed so much over the time over the course that I had making this, that like, you know, I, I, I was kind of like, I, it just felt like I was in shifting sands cause I really thought I'd be able to get it up and running within, you know, six, six to 12 months, which was partially hubris, but, but also kind of slightly more in line with like what the last several years had been like in podcasting. Speaker 3 00:09:52 And so I had, I had been in conversation with a number of different partners, none of whom ended up like wanting to stick it out long term, um, meaning or at least give, well, there were plenty that were long term, just not, um, and uh, financially invested. So I was just like, fuck it. Like, <laugh>, I'll just, um, you know, I, I know that I have some amount of following and some amount of capacity. And so like, let's just see what people will respond to and do people actually want this thing that I hear in my head. So I produced, uh, I finished a, a pilot of the show, which was what you heard, which was an, uh, an early a prototype of episode one. Um, and, uh, and released that to the world with the Kickstarter, oh God, was this July, 2018. And then, and then eventually released the show, um, what, September 20, 20 <laugh>. So it was still another, in the know another, another year and a half after that or whatever that was. Yeah. Speaker 4 00:10:49 Well, I know that when, when Stewart suggested that we focus on the show, I, I know I was, I was pumped because I kind of lost touch with the show during the pandemic as understanding Speaker 3 00:10:58 Many of Speaker 4 00:10:58 Us lost touch with many things. Speaker 3 00:11:01 Yeah. Speaker 4 00:11:01 There was this thing going on at the time. I said, occupy my brain. Right. <laugh> but, uh, but I listened to all five of the episodes when I found out about it. Yes. By the way, I did start with the read me episode, something I never do in, in real life <laugh>, but I actually listened to the show twice. Oh, thanks. Because I was finishing up listening to it while my wife and I were taking a trip back from Northern Arizona to Phoenix, which is where I live. Um, and, and my wife was list, heard me listening along. She said, what is that? I wanna listen to that. So I had to start over again from the top and, and she was totally hooked. But then again, we know we're sci-fi nerd. That's great. So, and also, and it was for, Speaker 3 00:11:36 You had to do with Phoenix, you know, exactly. Speaker 4 00:11:38 Right, exactly. Right. So, so, so thanks for that. Speaker 4 00:11:54 So let's start doing some of these clips, right? So you asked us to select some clips from the, the final episode. So spoiler alert, galore everyone. Um, and we have those out there ready. Uh it's this fourth episode is rather deep and like all of the episodes, I, the way I look at it, it contains three distinctly different. I'm gonna call them bits just for lack of a better term, right? There's there's the sci-fi stuff, which, which you mentioned speculative fiction. If we wanna be all nice and Hoy toy about it, um, there's the reporting aspect. And then there are the, the monologue pieces or the voiceover work, which just is just for you. And we've pulled a clip of, of one example of each of those. And we're gonna start off with the monologue. So this clip we're about to play is you reading from a letter you wrote to your healthcare provider out of frustration, something we've probably all experienced quite a bit. So, uh, let's play that clip Stewart Speaker 3 00:12:55 I've since found a different healthcare provider where I encounter less red tape, which has been great in that it's allowed me the bandwidth try to actually make sense of this whole experience. It strikes me that perhaps coming out as trans, whether publicly or only to oneself, perhaps coming out as trans is the ultimate act of futurism. It is the belief that one can dwell in a body that has not yet arrived that may never arrive. Perhaps a trans body is like a distant star. It cannot be seen as it is right now. All anyone can perceive of it is an outdated image, telegraphed through space. And perhaps what the work is, is figuring out how to limit the lag time between the star and what others can know of. It. It's easy to get carried away with metaphors when talking about being trans, because it really can be a transport of experience. Speaker 3 00:13:47 It's not a coincidence that it is often described as a journey and every hero and heroin's journey must begin with a call to adventure with learning that there is more to this world than one had previously thought and critically with seeking the wisdom and gathering the tools that a hero needs to embark on their quest. And this doctor is what I wish Kaiser would improve for its patients to better provide the resources, the materials, the information that heroes need to begin their transformations. All of which is a very roundabout way of saying, just please make the info more accessible. And you can start by fixing your website, sincerely Sam Greenspan, Speaker 4 00:14:32 That, that bit there at the end where you kill the bed music for that final wish is just great. You know, it's kinda like you, we didn't know where the story was going, but like, no, I need, I need to emphasize that. And I really wish that the doctor you wrote the letter to could have actually heard the clip rather than even if they did read the letter. Cuz I, I think it would've been really a powerful moment for them too. But talk to me for a moment about deciding how much of your personal story you wanted to share on the show? Like how much did you have to hold back for fear of dumping too much on your audience? Speaker 3 00:15:07 I don't know if I have like, like a, like a real definite answer other than the fact that it's like, there, there wasn't a day that I didn't wake up in the last five years and think like, how am I gonna make bellwether? It, it just had to become, so it was just such a part of my consciousness and, and also the way that like my sort of navigation through a healthcare system was as well. And, um, and, and I think Y you know, I, I I've, I've often said that, like, the stories that I tell or my beat or whatever is like stories that I assume someone else is gonna cover, but then just no one does. And I'm like, really like, no, one's on this. Like, I wasn't gonna do this, but I guess I'll do it. Like, that's kind of what that was like, um, episode, you know, one with the, with the, um, well, if you listen to the story, if you listen to the whole whole thing, you'll, you'll hear that there's, you know, the first, the first episode is about automated cars, a self-driving cars, and I'm just like, someone's gonna cover this angle. Speaker 3 00:16:06 No one did. And there was thing about the ghost ship fire, and like online docs saying, I'm like, someone's gonna cover this and no one did. And then this thing about like legislation affecting sex workers and, and the rest of us that someone's gonna cover that no one did. And so it was sort of just like, at that, at that point, I was just like, in a way, it was like, I want the safety and security that I can feel from like, having a reason to tell this story. And I think even saying this story that like having the occasion to tell a story is like a way of, um, sort of like dissociating from trauma. Right. And so it was kind of like, I, I don't like really talking a lot about like my gender dysphoria or, or I'm just sort of like, I just, like now it's like, I think I can kind of point to and be like, well, if you wanna like you, what I had to say, like, it's there, you know, <laugh> like, so I think, I guess just, if I can answer your question succinctly, I think this story, and really all stories in bellwether are just, are just stories that I, I just kind of, couldn't imagine not being told and they all feel very personal to me, but this one, you know, especially, and, and I'm glad you picked that, that piece, cuz that, you know, that's like the, that's one of the pieces of writing that I'm the most proud of from the show. Speaker 4 00:17:34 So let's move onto our next clip, you know, at the root of this series is just good old fashioned reporting, right? Speaker 3 00:17:39 Yeah. Thank you. I, I hope means Speaker 4 00:17:42 Yeah. Well your skills as a reporter, you know, and as an audio producer are required for an ambitious project like bellwether, Speaker 3 00:17:50 I, I love the way that you're presenting this cuz you're sort of, you're presenting it like as, as a, as a sort of a nesting doll, which this story is. And so we're sort of starting from the innermost working out and that's, uh, not the way it's actually presented on, on the show. So it's yeah. So this is like a version of, this is a, this is a story in which I, Sam Greenspan am reporting, but not aware that you just heard this other thing that you just heard. Speaker 5 00:18:13 We're part of a system called the locks system, which is an acronym for lots of copies, keep stuff safe. And it's basically a, a network of institutions that mirror collections to each other. Speaker 3 00:18:25 And so when something gets captured by PERMA, in addition to living on Harvard university's servers, it also gets mirrored to the servers of about 40 other institutions, including Stanford university, the British library, the library of Congress and the internet archive, which itself has other web preservation campaigns too. But even these institutions massive as they are, cannot hold fast to the entire internet. It's too big, doing too many different things, changing too quickly. And so as our civilization creates more and more data, I hope we're able to remember where we're putting all of it. I hope we can work together to keep the things online that our civilization depends on to survive. I hope we can all find a way to keep it 200. Speaker 4 00:19:20 So my first question is can I still get one of those keep a 200 pins, cuz that was a great Speaker 3 00:19:24 Idea. They're still for sale on the, on the bellwether band camp store <laugh> so you sure can. Fantastic. We'll load up. I just, I actually just, they, it took forever to get them. Uh, you might have heard there's been some supply chain issues, but um, but we just got them from the forge back from China, um, a couple days ago. So I just, I just mailed out the first batch, um, yesterday actually. So yeah, Speaker 4 00:19:48 One of the differences that I, I hear most often, um, between podcasters who have extensive radio and reporting experience like yourself and, and ones without it, is that the latter tend to rely on the entirety of an interview where the former knows really how to select just the choice bits and then use their own voice to summarize the longer pieces for, for the audience. Right. Uh, I'm not about to ask you how you do that, but I am gonna ask you about the trust that you have to build with the interviewee that makes them comfortable when that, to know that's happening or, or is that something that you don't really worry too much about and you just do it on your own. Speaker 3 00:20:25 I mean, there's always an amount of trust, um, with an interview. I mean, um, and I always feel that like when I'm on the other side of the mic, right, like right now, um, I'm always like, why do people do this? This is terrible. Um, but yeah, I, there's always an, there's always an amount of trust and I think, I guess I've never really thought about it like that. Um, in terms of like how much editing will be doing. I mean, I think I, I always make it true and I always, um, you know, I also wanted to be very clear that throughout the show, I, I never wanted a person who I interviewed to sort of like be like a prop, you know? Um, so I'm, so we're always cutting like these, these hard break points in between, um, my reporting or narrative personal narrative and then the rest and then the sort of sci-fi world it's always breaking into me. Speaker 3 00:21:11 And I, and I, so just try to like give you a, a second to sort of get, get back to reality. Yeah. I think, I think trust is, is super important. And I think it's just sort of, you know, telling, showing people that you're a human being that you acknowledge, they're a human being and, um, and following up with them and telling them when, when stuff is out and, and stuff. It's funny cuz this thing, this thing took so long that, and I, I spent so long like listening to these same people's interviews over and over and over again that I, um, I wound up seeing, um, the dude Ash Clayton, who was in, uh, episode two of bellwether. This was even a long time ago, but I, I ran into him at a party or something like that. And I was like, oh, Hey Ash, like, it's really good to see you. He's like, sorry, who are you again? I'm like, oh right. Speaker 4 00:21:49 <laugh> Speaker 3 00:21:50 <laugh> I was like, I've just been listening to your voice. Speaker 4 00:21:52 That was six months Speaker 3 00:21:52 Ago. I've been listening to your voice every day for the last several years, but yeah. Speaker 4 00:21:56 <laugh> yeah. You've dealt your own parasocial relationship with your yes. Speaker 3 00:22:00 Have a hundred percent. A hundred percent <laugh> yeah. Speaker 4 00:22:04 Uh, so, so I wanna switch gears a little bit, but stay on that clip. Uh, I'm curious about the decisions, um, about, about music specifically where to, and where to not use a bed music. I mean, it felt like to me, um, out of that clip, there were, there was only 21 seconds that didn't have music in it. But to me that I know the silence that music free piece was really helped give a break really helped us focus if you will. Was that your intent? Speaker 3 00:22:32 I think I've been doing it so long that to me, it just sort of feels a little bit second nature. And like when it, when I sort of feel like I need music and when I don't, I think I've, I've sort of discovered for myself that I usually, I, I think music usually works best between intervals of like 65 to 90 seconds. And then having two, sometimes three music moments back to back works, but more than that, usually doesn't for me. So, um, so I think it was just probably just the pacing out. I mean, obviously there's specific decisions like to have the music chop out to make the next thing. Yeah. And that, I mean, that, that's that, I mean, that trick is the oldest in the book. I mean, that's like, that's an IGL trick from a million years ago, but yeah, I think I, I, you know, I think the music, you know, music is such an important part and it's something I thought about a lot. Speaker 3 00:23:15 And um, this music is by a guy called bono. Um, otherwise I was Bo Sorenson. Who's an amazing musician and record engineer recording engineer in, um, in the bay area. And I, I, I think I'm trying to remember, I think that was actually, and I also commissioned a, a suite of music from him. And I think that was one that was an original piece for the, for the show. So yeah, it's so much, it's like the music is so much of a feeling that you wanna give, but it's also like the words have to stand on their own too. Like, I, I want, I wanna believe that if you stripped out all the music of bellwether, it would still work. Speaker 4 00:23:58 All right. So I'm excited to play our final clip because this is what really got me interested in bellwether in the first place. And it's the sci-fi stuff. Yay. I'm excited. So, all right, Stewart, play that clip. Speaker 7 00:24:09 Oh my gosh. RIS, look at this. It's a map. It's transcoding. A map OUS bellwether is a map. The extraneous data that keeps crashing the episodes it's compiling into NM E a data. That's what guy was telling us, NM E a data, an archaic form of geolocation coordinates. Um, yes, I can give you a visual. Hang on. Actually, it's not the PMPM. This is Phoenix old Phoenix pre-cloud burst, pre million palms, pre Phoenix million palms metropolis. Just a map. Why bother taking a map and coding it into binary and hard coding the binary into four episodes of a podcast? You could never be sure anyone would listen to. Speaker 4 00:25:12 That's actually a great question. <laugh> why, in fact, wouldn't you put all of that into a four episode podcast. You're not sure anyone would listen Speaker 3 00:25:17 To, so yeah, no, it's something I ask myself all the time. Speaker 4 00:25:20 <laugh> oh man. And I don't know when thousand palms became million palms, but I guess that happens sometime, uh, in the immediate future there. Well, so Speaker 3 00:25:28 Million Speaker 4 00:25:29 Ask Speaker 3 00:25:29 Million palms of course, is the, is the glomeration when, when Phoenix bleeds out into, you know, 29 palms, a hundred, you know, all, all of the, all of the, the region encompassing from Phoenix, Arizona to, uh, Palm Springs basically is Speaker 4 00:25:43 Valley and all that stuff. Yeah. Well that will be, that'll be a wild day, but I don't know that I'll live to see it, which is okay. Think it's, who knows, although it's, it's, sci-fi white, we could have longevity things come along and you never know. We live to 200 years. Um, look, I could, I could talk about this clip all day, because again, it's sci-fi, but I wanna be respectable of everyone's time, yours and our listeners as well. Uh, but I have to know the, the voice that we just heard speaking is not the human it's, the AI it's CAS, you know, and, and instead of hearing the human voice of IOUs, the human in place of their words, we hear a series of electronic sounds. And I think that's, that's clever to kind of flip the script on that. Can you tell me about Speaker 3 00:26:25 That decision? Yeah. Thank you for noticing that. Um, yeah, so Cass, uh, is played by the actor, Carmen, Berkeley. Who's just in incredible, uh, actor, amazing to work with and hope it gets to work with her again someday. Yeah. And she, she just really she's really owned that, that role. And, and I think in her performance, I think like one of, one of the things that was really hard from the beginning was like, that was important to me was that was that the human would be the silent, you know, it would be like the silent Bob and that, and that the AI would be the one that you would have the empathy and emotion for. Not that we don't have empathy profess silent Bob, but you know what I mean? Or the, the Harpo marks, I guess, as it were, but I, I, you know, I don't know where that idea came from. Speaker 3 00:27:01 I think I just, before I knew anything else about bellwether, I knew there was going to be an OmniGen voice that I, as a reporter would not interact with and would sort of exist in a plane outside of me. And I, and I knew, I knew, I knew it was a female character and I knew that she would be in conversation with someone off stage. And that, that just sort of, you know, as I built everything else out, that's just sort of what, what happened, but no, but I'm glad you noticed that. And I think, I think, um, in, in, in, in an earlier version of the show, I think people were confused and thought that CAS was the human and that IOUs was the, was the, was the machine. But I think we were able to make that clear, but yeah, I just, I think I just like every, everything, I'm glad you listened to it twice and I I'm, I'm glad you find that it, it deserves that I, there really is like, just like, I don't know. Speaker 3 00:27:49 I say like every good idea I ever had. I just stuck in a blender and hoped it made something interesting. So, yeah, it's just, I, I just, every, every little piece of that I, I tried to, um, to find, um, to, to just turn on its head just a little bit, um, and try to make you keep up. I, this, this is kind of a weird reference, but I got really obsessed with the David burn and Bryan Enno album, my life in the Bush of ghosts. Um, which you ever heard that one, it's an amazing record. And it's like, there's so much like, like vocal, like sampling of like words and phrases and stuff, but it's, it happens so FA it's like repetitive, but it's also hard to understand what they're saying. And I just love the idea of like being saturated information, but having the time to understand what's going on be sort of slow. And so that, there's a sort of like disparity between your like, understanding, like your understanding as a, as, as an, as a, as an audience member. I like the idea of, of, of, of swimming in information, but, but being okay to take the, that amount of time to figure out what's going on. Was Speaker 4 00:28:54 There anything you want me to cover that we didn't ask about? Speaker 3 00:28:56 I guess I'd just like to acknowledge some people that I, that I work with on this. I mean, this was sort of my, uh, Boulder to push up a hill for a long time, but, but I had tremendous support from Alex Baron who just sort of wrote me out of the, actually out of the blue. He, he backed my Kickstarter and then I think I wrote an update at one point being like, oh, it's coming, but, you know, please be patient. And he just was like, I think, I think I, I think I see you that you're stuck and I think you, I can help. And he ju and he did, and he just sort of showed up and became my co-writer. And, um, actually that section that you played was mostly his writing, um, at the end there. And of course, Carmen Berkeley, the, the actor, and we had just such a huge, great team of, of ensemble actors. Speaker 3 00:29:36 And there were so many people who sort of helped, helped me push it along. Um, GKI Metta, Sarah Henry, Jeremy DAAs, and, um, Mara laser kind of all helped various points on the production process and, and Julia Barton, um, her, she would be grace guest for your show too. And then of course, Bri and baker, who's responsible for the majority of the fiction sound design that Alex and I were sort of doing it on our own. And I, I think got to a point where I was like, I really, I really want Brendan on this, someone I've known for a long time and really, really respect and was just such a great experience to work with him. And of course I, Kelly Gillespie, who's the casting director who I found to help me find all these people to work with all, all the actors to work with. So it really was like, you know, a bit of a barn raising a bit of like the village coming together. Um, people I didn't even know who were in my wings to come out and to believe in this thing with me was pretty incredible, Speaker 4 00:30:28 A big thanks to Sam for sharing their creative process behind bellwether with me today. I love extremely creative podcasts and the people who make them while it's true that all podcasts are creative endeavors. It's also true that some creations are more complex than others stretching their producers to the limit. It's great when it all works together, right? You can get all five episodes of bellweather@bellweather.show. That's B E L L w E T H E r.show. Or just follow the link in the episode details I have been and shall be your host for this season. Evo, Tara, thank you so much for listening. You can find all the episodes of three clips on our website, three clips, podcast.com. You can support the show by telling you a few dozen of your closest friends. Again, that's three clips, podcast.com. This episode was produced and edited by Stewart barefoot theme music was created by Tyler Litwin. Matt Madeiros is the executive producer of three clips. If you can't get enough of me, follow me on Twitter, where I'm at Evo Tara. And if you're a serious podcaster with an interest in making podcasting better check out my daily short form podcast called podcast pontifications, which you can find@podcastpontifications.com. Three clips is a Casto original series. You can learn more@casto.com. All of these links are in the episode details. Speaker 4 00:31:59 And now our bonus segment, each episode, we ask our guests for a podcast. They'd recommend that isn't at the top of the charts, a show they'd like to show some love to we call this segment, play it forward. Speaker 3 00:32:14 There is an amazing show that just came out from audible called eminent domain. It is an immersive 3d sci-fi narrative where you, the listener are inside of the head of the main character. Who's like moving through the world it's fiction, but it's all recorded in the field and they shot it. Like it was a movie with like people, actors moving around in space and stuff. And it's, I had a very small role in it. I was sort of like a technical consultant on it at the beginning. Um, it's really the brainchild of Warren Langford, who is a friend and colleague who had this vision for this immersive sci-fi audio about like Chicano kids in Northern New Mexico who fall through a time portal basically. And then, um, also with Warren's co-writer Tory Cardenas. It does what I hope bellweather does, which is to like tell all of these stories that are just from, from perspectives that aren't, that are often not heard. Speaker 3 00:33:10 Like the story is so new Mexican it's so indigenous, it also has like some like kind of cult vibes to it too. And it it's also just so worn and just, you know, from knowing him for so long, as long as I have, um, just knowing like what, what sort of his, his turn sense of humor, but, but also like, it, it is all those things and it is like so specific, but it is also just a really good story at the end of the day. And I think it, I think it's just a great example that you can kind of access the universal by getting so specific into this, into this world that you didn't know existed. And in some cases may or may not exist based on your, how much you believe in the sci-fi, but Northern New Mexico and Santa Fe are, are all places. And there are places that, you know, I, I certainly didn't know a lot about before I met him and, and, and learned a lot more about from, from the show. So it's amazing. And I, I hope everyone gets to listen to it. Speaker 4 00:33:59 And that wraps up another episode of three clips, a Casto original hosted by me, Evo, Tara. I truly believe that one of the best ways we can make podcasting better is by understanding what goes on inside the heads of our fellow podcasters. Thanks for joining me this season. Cheers.

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